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GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby agentsmith » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:25 am

Pumpkin wrote:
I don't have a problem with the back ground check. I fly through those. But any measure such as a magazine limit is bullshit. Even the full auto ban is dumb as hell, drug cartels have them, but I can't. Great logic there. The definition of arms is anything you can wear or hold in your hands to attack another in office or defense. The only thing that keeps me from having a full auto is my reluctance to commit a greater crime.


You fill out and sign 4473s?
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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby Pumpkin » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:03 pm

Yes, but I do not alienate any of my rights. If you want a new gun, you don't have any choice. The manufacturers and the distributors are all under their spell.
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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby agentsmith » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:35 pm

Pumpkin wrote:Yes, but I do not alienate any of my rights. If you want a new gun, you don't have any choice. The manufacturers and the distributors are all under their spell.


You admit to being a US citizen? And present a DL as identification?
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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby BOBT12 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:44 pm

Pumpkin wrote:Yes, but I do not alienate any of my rights. If you want a new gun, you don't have any choice. The manufacturers and the distributors are all under their spell.
Look I understand what you are saying. Sheriff (ret) Richard Mack proved this crap is unconstitutional, in Mack/Printz v. US. However, these forms (4473) are suppose to stay with the shop owner, unless a court order requires them to release the information. Naturally, the feds often intimidate the owners into letting them make copies. Still, it is rather labor intensive work for the idiot squad.

Then you have the National Instant Criminal Background Check (NICS) system where the feds confirm you don't have anything in your record which would preclude you from owning a firearm,they are suppose to discard this information after a short period of time (under the Clinton Administration it was found this didn't always happen, but it still illegal).

What Shoorna is speaking about is a permanent, and very dangerous, database that will be cross matched the other databases (can you say NSA) to track you. All of this leads to gun confiscation. Gun Owners of American (GOA) and the National Rifle Association (NRA) are doing a great job in holding this back. We should all say no the nonsense, and stand with the groups really fighting to preserve our rights.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."-- Thomas Jefferson

”The principles contained in the Declaration of Independence are saving principles. Stand by those principles; be true to them on all occasions, in all places, against all foes, and at whatever cost.” –Frederick Douglass.

"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."- Patrick Henry

"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."- William Penn;Thomas Jefferson's personal seal, attributed to the judges who executed King Charles I for crimes against the people.

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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby Pumpkin » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:17 pm

The NRA, IMO, only extends the battle. They bug the shit out of me constantly for MONEY. I've been a member, but they are just like any other bureaucracy. An ultimate victory for their cause would be the worse thing that ever happened to them. The gun rights battle is one for the states. The federal government has no authority within the several states concerning guns. The 2nd Amendment negates any interstate commercial claim, yet our state 'government' and people just sit back and pretend the feds have authority and jurisdiction. The only way to completely stop the gun grabbers is to show them why we have them when needed.
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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby Shoonra » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:19 pm

It may well be true that unfit people can trick or circumvent the background check system and the magazine size limits, but at least those restrictions slow them up and eliminate the half-witted or half-hearted unfit. Thinning the ranks of the unfit with deadly weapons (and/or making their weapons a tad less deadly) is a worthwhile goal.

Considering that the purpose of the Second Amendment is a well-regulated militia, and the Congress is authorized to regulate the militia (Art. I, sec. 8, cl. 16), it seems appropriate to weed out people and weapons inappropriate for a well-regulated militia.
/ Shoonra
"Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft."
First Samuel 15:23
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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby Pumpkin » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:10 pm

Congress must follow this:

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


And since enemies can be foreign or domestic, I think the ones holding the guns will determine what 'infringe' means. That being said, a much more effect, and efficient way to combat domestic enemies is to cut off their funding.
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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby Shoonra » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:41 pm

agentsmith wrote:You admit to being a US citizen? And present a DL as identification?


Under sec. 102 of the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, which is 18 USC § 922(d)(7), anyone who repudiates his US citizenship loses his right to possess firearms.
/ Shoonra
"Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft."
First Samuel 15:23
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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby BOBT12 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:43 am

Shoonra wrote:It may well be true that unfit people can trick or circumvent the background check system and the magazine size limits, but at least those restrictions slow them up and eliminate the half-witted or half-hearted unfit. Thinning the ranks of the unfit with deadly weapons (and/or making their weapons a tad less deadly) is a worthwhile goal.
It is not like there is a problem, statistically guns are very safe, and we don't need more government interference with honest gun owners.

Shoonra wrote:Considering that the purpose of the Second Amendment is a well-regulated militia, and the Congress is authorized to regulate the militia (Art. I, sec. 8, cl. 16), it seems appropriate to weed out people and weapons inappropriate for a well-regulated militia.
The congress was not authorized to regulate the militia, this was/is the job of the states, which may need to use their militia to keep the state free of unconstitutional federal interference. The states were doing this job before the federal government existed.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charte ... cript.html
Emphasis added.

"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"-Constitution of united states of America, Article 1, Section 8

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei
Emphasis added.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."-- Thomas Jefferson

”The principles contained in the Declaration of Independence are saving principles. Stand by those principles; be true to them on all occasions, in all places, against all foes, and at whatever cost.” –Frederick Douglass.

"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."- Patrick Henry

"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."- William Penn;Thomas Jefferson's personal seal, attributed to the judges who executed King Charles I for crimes against the people.

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Re: GUN GRABBERS SAY THE DAMNEDEST THINGS!

Postby ugalawdog98 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:11 am

Shoonra wrote:Considering that the purpose of the Second Amendment is a well-regulated militia, and the Congress is authorized to regulate the militia (Art. I, sec. 8, cl. 16), it seems appropriate to weed out people and weapons inappropriate for a well-regulated militia.


Wrong, according to D.C. v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008):

The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.Pp. 2–53.


http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf
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